Tech ONTAP Podcast Episode 396 – BlueXP Classification

Sifting through millions of files to filter out PII, compliance violations, or other sensitive data is a huge burden for many organizations. BlueXP Classification from NetApp provides a way to simplify those tasks and make regulatory compliance more of a molehill than a mountain.

Ben Kesten joins us to discuss how BlueXP Classification is changing the way you manage your data.

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The following transcript was generated using Descript’s speech to text service and then further edited. As it is AI generated, YMMV.

Tech ONTAP Podcast Episode 396 – BlueXP Classification
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Justin Parisi: This week on the Tech ONTAP Podcast, we talk all about BlueXP classification and how it provides a simple way to organize your data sets better.

Podcast Intro/Outro: [Intro]

Justin Parisi: Hello and welcome to the Tech ONTAP Podcast!

My name is Justin Parisi. I’m in the basement of my house and with me today we have a special guest to talk to us all about what’s new in BlueXP with Classification. To do that we have Ben Kesten. So Ben, what do you do at NetApp and how do we reach you?

Ben Kesten: Hi Justin, I’m out of my basement as well, what a coincidence.

Justin Parisi: We’re in different basements.

Ben Kesten: Yeah, that’s correct. So I’m the outbound product manager for BlueXP Classification, previously known as Data Sense, if you remember that name. And yeah, you could just hit me up on LinkedIn if you’d like.

Justin Parisi: All right.

Excellent. So let’s talk about Data Sense. If people are not familiar with what that is, let’s give an overview of what that is slash was.

Ben Kesten: Okay, so, we relaunched BlueXP, it used to be Cloud Data Sense, it moved to Data Sense, now it’s BlueXP Classification, so that is the official name from now on, and from now on it’s only classification, okay? So BlueXP was history, now we’re looking forward, and the NetApp solution to map, classify, and organize our customers data. In today’s world, we know that customers have a lot of data throughout all the organization, and our customers just have no idea what data is out there. Personal data, PII, sensitive information. Is all the information on our shares business related data? Sometimes we find someone downloading Trilogy of Lord of the Rings on our file shares, and we don’t want that.

So BlueXP classification is a solution that goes in, scans the data, and allows our customers to understand their data and take action on their data. and helping our customers keep their data neat and tidy and in compliance and a lot of other use cases that we’ll talk about in this call.

Justin Parisi: Okay, so basically, it’s a way to manage your data a lot easier. And this is really important when you start to deal with these high file count file shares where you have a lot of different folders and files in there, and it’s tough to really understand what they are, where they are, so things can get lost, things can get misplaced, and it’s really important, especially in today’s climate with all the new regulations that are being passed to really understand where your data is and what it is.

Ben Kesten: That’s for sure. All the customers that approach us just have no idea what they have, and it’s not only where it is, but who’s the owner of the file, who has access to those files? For example, we had a customer that we ran a POC and we found a few employees contracts just opened to all organizations.

Now imagine that happens to you. How inconvenient is that? Where your employment contract is just open to all organizations. Somebody just put it in a folder that was open to everyone by mistake.

Justin Parisi: Yep, absolutely. And that can cost a lot of money because there’s a lot of fines associated with those types of things.

Ben Kesten: Oh, yeah, you don’t want to get a penalty around privacy, but it’s not only that the penalties around privacy are inconvenient and a pain, but think about how much it costs to run data centers with just junk of data. It’s not really data that the organization really needs, but then they’re just adding more data and more storage and more computing.

Why not keep it optimized? And, that’s one of the use cases. The main use case that we see, along the others, is our customers just need to optimize their storage. So, It’s not only tiering their cold data off to, I don’t know, S3, but deleting duplicate data, and non business related data, and stale data, and personal data that people keep on their file shares.

It’s all a big, big pile of data and optimization is huge but it’s not only that. We talked about optimizing storage and around the compliance and GDPR and CCPA, but what we see now, and this makes me very glad to say, a lot of customers are migrating data from other vendors under other environments onto NetApp. It’s not a lift and shift project, because that’s just simple and not very intelligent way to do it. Essentially, they scan their data beforehand with the BlueXP classification, and move it in the most efficient way onto NetApp, not only efficiently, but each data set gets placed in the correct place.

If it’s finance information or HR information or whatever, it gets put in the right place. It’s a good opportunity for maintenance and housekeeping around the data.

Justin Parisi: So I remember with Cloud Data Sense It was pretty exciting for customers when they saw a demo of it, and then when it came time to say, okay, well, how do I use it?

It started becoming a discussion about price. And I think that was one of the main roadblocks to Cloud Data Sense’s use was it just cost too much for some people. So tell me about how BlueXP classification improves upon that.

Ben Kesten: Okay, so here is a really big news. BlueXP classification is part of BlueXP core capabilities, which means for all of NetApp customers, it’s at no cost.

So we removed the barrier of entry around cost, and it’s now available to all NetApp customers. There’s no license required, so it used to be that you had to go in, you had to get a license and a digital wallet and activate it. That’s all gone away. Today, a customer that has BlueXP just enters BlueXP classification, and there it is.

Just deploy it according to the deployment guide. You need another VM for classification. And that’s it. You’re good to go. So no license needed. You just go in and activate it.

Justin Parisi: Is there access to your on prem data centers with this as well, or is that something you have to do? Of course. It’s all on site?

Ben Kesten: Yeah, so there are options to deploy BlueXP classification. The first one is on premises. That is typically what our customers do. The majority of our customers would like full control of the data. So the BlueXP Classification virtual machine is then deployed in their own data center on prem. And none of the data that we scan and analyze leaves a premise of the customer.

And a lot of customers, which are more security sensitive, prefer that path. They actually deploy the on prem machine and scan data center. So, it’s It’s secure, right? A lot of customers have concerns about security. Oh, where does my data go? Who analyzes it as good? Nothing leaves our customer’s premise, and that’s the most secure option that our customers have. In the same way, we have a cloud option, which is essentially any hyperscaler. If it’s AWS, Azure or Google on our customers’ VPC, you just set up through BlueXP, you select the cloud option, and it’s installed inside our customer’s VPC.

Again, it’s very secure, but sometimes customers like it, don’t like it, whatever. But they could do that as well. That’s a super quick and super easy way to install.

Justin Parisi: Okay, so the on prem and cloud versions are going to be no cost for the license, but cost for VMs, of course, or cost for hardware. Of course, yes. That’s correct.

How does this play in the volumes as a service model, like your Azure NetApp Files or your Google Cloud Volumes. Is it able to interact with those, or does it require access to the back end storage?

Ben Kesten: It requires access to the back end storage, obviously. So the way that we connect to the back end storage is as any typical user would go in, so if it’s NFS or SMB, you just enter your credentials into the configuration console of BlueXP Classification, and that’s it. It reads the data as if it’s a regular user. So the same way that ANF or FSx works as file share, you could access that in the same way as well.

Justin Parisi: Yeah, and when I say backend access to the storage, I mean like actual CLI or REST API access, but it sounds like you can do this all through the file protocols.

Ben Kesten: Of course, of course.

Justin Parisi: And does it only support NAS or can it also do SAN and object?

Ben Kesten: It does file shares and databases. The databases could be hosted anywhere. And today we actually focus on NetApp storage. We want all of our customers to scan their ONTAP storage. Their StorageGRID. And we really want them to use BlueXP Classification as that optimization solution. We are also now acting as the platform for other solutions. For example, Ransomware Protection Services, which is a new service in BlueXP.

I’m sure you’ll have another episode about that, but you’ll be able to activate Data Sense through the console of RPS. Obviously when you’re protecting against ransomware, you can’t really protect all of your data. So you could use BlueXP classification to find out where are my crown jewels?

What do I need to protect? Where’s my critical data? So that will allow you to activate Data Sense through RPS and scan all of your NetApp information. A

Justin Parisi: And one correction, I think you can protect all your data, but there’s a cost associated with it.

Ben Kesten: There’s a cost. Yeah, yeah. That’s good. I mean,

Justin Parisi: like technically you could if you want to spend all your money.

But yeah, you’re right. I mean, you have to really focus and narrow down what’s important and what is most business critical because those are the things that are going to hurt you the most if you do get ransomware

Ben Kesten: Oh, obviously. Yeah. And that’s where Classification comes into play and helps the ransomware protection services customers and the NetApp customers focus and protect really what they need and not just spend a whole lot of money on data which may be less important or maybe not relevant to the business and it’s not needed to protect.

Justin Parisi: So you mentioned that accessing these file shares is essentially done the same way as a user would access it. So what is stopping someone from using BlueXP classification on non NetApp storage? Basically like competitor storage… is there a licensing agreement? Is there an actual blocking that happens?

How does that take place?

Ben Kesten: No, there’s no blocking. First of all, you need to be a NetApp customer that has BlueXP in order to access these capabilities. So if you’re a non NetApp customer altogether, and you don’t have BlueXP, you can’t enjoy these capabilities.

But for example, you’re a customer that has half and half, Unfortunately, half of your data is in a different vendor. We don’t stop our customers from scanning other data on other vendors storage, because at the end of the day, we want to incentivize our customers to move their data onto NetApp.

So once they scan it and say, Hey, this is cool, we could actually manage our data better on ONTAP. Let’s move it. So, we don’t have a mechanism to stop our customers from scanning other file shares, although it’s not advised to do so. But because of this migration use case and the fact that we want to help the teams in NetApp to show our customers how good we are and how we help them. It’s just a means of good service to our customers.

Justin Parisi: So in that same vein, do we offer assurances to customers that we’re not looking at this data saying, Oh, we noticed you’re scanning an EMC, right?

Ben Kesten: Classification doesn’t know how to differentiate between a file share that’s scanned data that’s on ONTAP or on EMC or wherever. We won’t approach them actively and say, Hey, we found half of your data is on EMC. Why don’t you move over to us? We’re helping our customers understand and optimize their data and if someone abuses the system I wouldn’t blame them just because this solution is so awesome.

Justin Parisi: I don’t want to imply that people would be abusing this. I’m just curious, because I think these are questions that’ll be asked by customers, and I’m sure you’ve probably gotten these questions from customers.

Ben Kesten: Yeah, yeah. So, look, today the version that is included as a core capability of BlueXP is limited to 500 terabytes per BlueXP instance.

We’re planning to grow it, but today it’s limited to 500 terabytes. Now, If a customer decides to use this 500 terabytes to scan their EMC, well, hopefully they migrate their data onto a NetApp afterwards.

Justin Parisi: That would be ideal for us. Yep, exactly. All right. So, we used to be called Cloud Data Sense.

Why did we make this change to go from Cloud Data Sense slash Data Sense to BlueXP Classification?

Ben Kesten: Well it was part of the new capability of BlueXP. We didn’t want to have it as a standalone product that is used by customers that are not necessarily NetApp customers.

We have today customers that joined us a year, two years ago, that the only solution that they use from NetApp was BlueXP classification. But that really doesn’t help NetApp as a company grow the storage business. And that really is what we want to do. We want to help our customers store their data on NetApp.

So as part of this repositioning of the solution and Data Sense becoming part of the core capability of BlueXP, we change it to BlueXP Classification just because it’s part of the core capability, it’s at no cost, and it’s now well integrated into the other solutions of NetApp, so Ransomware Protection Services is the first one.

We’re also going to be future integrated into migration solutions like XCP. So the customers will ask, what do I need to migrate? How do I migrate effectively? Yeah, here, before migration, run your data through BlueXP Classification, create a clean copy of the data that you want to migrate, and there you go.

So we are becoming essentially the platform for everything. And with that, moving from a standalone solution to a platform, we decided to reposition and call it BlueXP Classification.

Justin Parisi: And it really ties into the new intelligent data management. Marketing campaign, right? So basically the ability to have your data, know where it is and understand it fully rather than just simply storing it somewhere.

Ben Kesten: And I believe that BlueXP classification is at the core and the heart of this. There’s no other solution out there. Not only in NetApp, but I think they’re completely in the IT world that actually performs the way we do in super simple way to deploy.

And the insights that it provides are out of the box, quick, and this is really what our goal is. So, BlueXP classification is one of the easiest solutions out there to deploy. If you read the deployment guideline, you could be up and running within 30 minutes, which is unheard of.

And once you’re deployed and you add data sources to the scan, that’s it. You don’t need to teach it anything. You don’t need to install your own Redgex, your own rules. It has so much insight out of the box. That our customers deploy it within 30 minutes, they start seeing insights, and they’re really blown away by what they see. That is really what our goal is. Easy to deploy. Easy to consume the data, easy to act upon. There are other, I don’t want to talk about competition, but we have cases where customers came to us and say, Hey, I’m trying to deploy this other solution. It’s been a year and a half. I’ve yet to gain any value out of it. It’s a nightmare. We walked them through the deployment of BlueXP. Within 30 minutes, they say, Hey, you know what? What you’ve done in 30 minutes, we were not able to do with this other vendor in a year and a half. Right? And that’s exactly what we want to do. Easy, simple, and very quick results. And because it’s so easy to consume, it should be a no brainer.

Justin Parisi: It’s also easy to pay for.

Ben Kesten: Well exactly, when there’s no costs associated. Yeah, super easy. I was exchanging emails today with the account team. They say, hey, we want to quote a customer for whatever. It’s like, no, you don’t need to quote it. It’s there, just go into BlueXP. They could start using it. They didn’t understand what I’m talking about.

What? It’s like, it’s great. Yeah. Go out and use it. That’s really the big news here. The fact that it’s at no cost, and it’s super easy to deploy.

Justin Parisi: So, you made this change, I guess, back in May? Is that correct?

Ben Kesten: That’s correct, yeah.

Justin Parisi: Have you seen a pretty large uptick in how many people are using BlueXP Classification?

Ben Kesten: You can’t imagine. Dozens of new customers just started pouring in. And we had some publication, we talked about it, but not a huge launch, it was part of the launch, but no, we’re starting to see dozens of new customers in the matter of two, three weeks that started to use it.

Not only deploy it, we see they’re scanning data, and now we just want to help them make sense of what their data has and what they find. So these account teams or customers are more than welcome to reach out to me or to my team. We’d be more than glad to walk you through the solution.

We could connect, we could talk about it. Talk about the use cases that they’re trying, what they’re trying to do with Data Sense. What are their goals? What are their business goals? And this is something that we’re really proud about because our team helps our customers achieve their business goals. If it’s migration or if they want to optimize the storage, or if they want to do whatever. I had a customer a couple of weeks ago that actually participated in this. One of the dozens of customers that deployed it on their own just wanted to, I think optimize the storage or migrate it from old NetApp machines to new. He had a tech refresh coming up. And by the way, that’s another use case, customers that have tech refreshes. You want to tell what goes where, how to optimize your tech refresh, use BlueXP Classification.

So that’s what he did. And, we walked through it and we showed him all the good stuff and how we could optimize the storage. And he was deciding what to do and how to create policies and what to move where he said, Hey, you know what, I’m a storage guy. I need to migrate my storage, but this could be great for security and compliance. Let me call my CISO. So a week later we met up with a CISO. It was a postal company in Europe, okay, just public , significant organization. And the CISO comes on and he’s like, well, this is very impressive.

And one of the abilities of BlueXP Classification is to find file owners, permissions, what this file contains and it’s super easy to consume because it has filters. You can just go in and use filters. Just click. I wanna see stale data. You could set the dates at last access, last modified, but this was more around security. So we said, okay, let’s look at file owners. Do you have a name in your mind? Like I was asking the storage guy. He says, let’s put in the CISOs name. And he goes, Hmm, okay. Yeah. So let, I typed in his name, the CISO’s name, and I said, okay, let’s click on the filter opened to organization.

This means that a file that’s owned by an individual is open to the organization. So we click open to the organization, and while I’m doing this, the CISO says, Oh, I’m the CISO. No way that there’s anything. Oh, I clicked on it. Lo and behold, there was one file that has not been accessed for 12 years that was owned by the CISO that was open to all the organization.

Luckily, that file didn’t contain any sensitive information or any personal information, because that would be a really big embarrassment, but yeah. That shows you how deep and how powerful BlueXP classification could be.

Justin Parisi: Yeah, when you’re dealing with a programmatic thing versus a human, the programmatic thing is almost always gonna win because it is just so much, like humans can be thorough, but you just can’t be as thorough as something that’s able to actually scan through billions of files. Right.

Ben Kesten: Exactly. Something will always slip between the cracks. Always. And the problem is it will surface in the worst possible moment.

Justin Parisi: Yeah, absolutely. Now, when you have data in the cloud and you’re using BlueXP classification to scan through your data, what kind of cost is associated with that?

Is there a cost of cloud operations that that takes place? And if so, is it only on the initial scan? And is it minimized on subsequent scans? Or does it do a full scan every time?

Ben Kesten: No, it doesn’t do a full scan all the time. So obviously there’ll be costs over there, but the way that classification works is, first of all, it’s always on.

So you don’t need to trigger a scan. Whenever you specify what volumes, or what shares you want to scan, so it doesn’t scan everything right away, you define what you want to scan. And initially there’s a scan of everything, there’s a full scan, obviously whatever costs associated with that, but then it’s only a subsequent scan where we scan only the files that have changed.

So first of all, you don’t have to trigger the scan, you could pause it if you’d like, but you don’t have to trigger it every time you want to scan, and the costs are not that great because we only scan things that have changed.

Justin Parisi: Now, what about performance? When you’re scanning these files on the initial scan, is there a significant performance hit or is it kind of not even noticeable?

Ben Kesten: It’s not noticeable. I haven’t heard a single complaint from hundreds of our customers to date that say, hey, I have a performance impact.

Because remember, we connect it to the file shares just as a regular user. It’s not like we need to deploy agents that may impact performance. So, the performance impact is minimal. We have a mechanism in the configuration dashboard to reduce the resources that are required to scan, but nobody really uses it, it’s just there as a safeguard. But really there’s no impact.

Justin Parisi: Yeah, I liken it to a virus scanner, right? It’s basically something that’s going to go and touch every file, but sometimes that does have a little bit of overhead when you’re dealing with a NAS environment. But in most cases, it’s probably usually fine.

Ben Kesten: Exactly. Unless you’re over utilized to that extent that it will cause impact, it shouldn’t. It really shouldn’t.

Justin Parisi: So let’s talk about use cases. We’ve touched on a little bit, but I’d like for you to give me your top three use cases for BlueXP classification.

Ben Kesten: Okay, so there’s one new exciting use case that’s now coming up and rising. It’s all over NetApp, talking about AI.

Gen AI. RAG and RAG, which is Retrieval Augmented Generation is, I think, one of the use cases that are gonna utilize classification. We talked a lot with data scientists, and, what they’ve told us is when they look at their organization’s data, it’s really challenging to get, quality data out there.

So, what data scientists need is somehow to clean up the data in order to ingest quality data. For example even duplicate files could throw off the models. So they need to clean out duplicates. They need to clean out personal information. Before it’s ingested, because they’re not allowed, there’s regulation around that where they’re not allowed to ingest personal information.

And they want to ingest the relevant data into the Gen AI models. And that is something that we are seeing really rising up. And I believe you had a few episodes ago discussion around Gen AI and how NetApp helps our customers. And BlueXP classification will be a major player in there in getting the data ready to ingest into the Gen AI models.

Justin Parisi: Speaking of Gen AI, is there any of that being implemented with BlueXP classification to improve how it does things?

Ben Kesten: So, we’re actually building that out right now. Yeah. We’re building out the methodology of how to do it, what to do it. So, for example, and this is just an example of how someone would like to do it.

So, you would take a certain volume or specific storage that you would want to analyze with the RAG. You clone it to for example CVO, and then start cleaning out that data because you just copy everything over. Now you start cleaning out that data, creating a clean copy which you’re allowed to ingest. The data scientist could then use the clean data, in order to ingest it in the chunks of data that they would like to ingest into BlueXP. So we’re working out how that’s going to work. We’re also changing the solution a little bit to fit what data scientists actually need when they’re cleaning out the data.

So that’s work in motion and we will have a lot more information out when it will be ready.

Justin Parisi: You mentioned the generative AI as one of the use cases for BlueXP classification. I guess that’s one of the top three. Give me your next top two of your use cases for BlueXP classification.

Ben Kesten: Storage optimization is really top of mind. Customers just have no idea what data they have, where it lies, who owns it, who has access to it. And I think cleaning up data and housekeeping and maintaining on the ongoing basis of the data is key. The last few years, the amount of data that our customers accumulate and have no idea what is in their data is just huge. And they’re concerned. They’re concerned not only about if it’s stale data or duplicate data, which just raises costs of storage, but also around the compliance of the data. In the EU, there’s a lot of GDPR issues and privacy. Now in Switzerland, it’s a similar law like GDPR which came into play. And customers cannot do it manually. There’s essentially no way to keep your data hygiene in a good state without using software like BlueXP Classification.

And this is the second top use case. Lastly but also very important, I see a lot of customers migrating data onto NetApp technologies because of the wealth of technologies that we have. If it’s ONTAP, if it’s FSx, we see a lot of customers shifting from other vendors onto NetApp, and they want to do it in the most optimized manner, so they’re using BlueXP classification to get ready for these migration projects.

So, those are, I think, the main use cases that we see today.

Justin Parisi: And I can think of one more that is kind of useful for not just customers but also the NetApp field is using it Almost as a sales tool to sell things like Fabric Pool slash cool access tiering. So being able to analyze what data is cold and understand how much data you could be tiering off to a lower cost storage infrastructure.

Ben Kesten: For sure. Yeah. Great. I’ll add that into our documentation.

Justin Parisi: There you go. You’re welcome.

Ben Kesten: Okay, great. Exactly. It’s all about storage optimization, right? Understanding what you have and how to optimize it, whether you want to move it or tier it off to cold storage or to StorageGRID or whatever.

It’s allowing our customers to understand their data. Not only what data they have or how much data they have. I have 20 petabytes of data. What does that mean even?

Justin Parisi: Yeah, it’s not just 20 petabytes of data. That’s a monolith. It’s 20 petabytes of 10 billion files, 20 petabytes of 60 files, right?

How big are the files? How small are the files? How often are they accessed?

Ben Kesten: And who accesses them? And what do they contain? Does it have information? All of that stuff, and we allow our customers to understand that in such an easy way, which is really revolutionizing the storage area because no other storage vendor has this ability built in.

Justin Parisi: One of the premier analysts in the industry, called GigaOM do a lot of analysis of storage vendors and other vendors in IT to give end users and consumers a way to better understand the field out there. So I understand that BlueXP classification has done a little bit of work with GigaOM. So can you tell me a little bit about that?

Ben Kesten: Yeah. So about three years ago, GigaOM approached us and said, Hey, we’re doing a radar – they call it GigaOM Radar, and they started to cover unstructured data management and say, hey, we heard you have this solution, let’s include you in the research. Right away, when they did the research, we came out in the top vendors.

This year in the research that came out, we were number one. Really, you look at the radar we’re right in there in the top leader and outperformer in unmanaged unstructured. for data management. Essentially, number one, no competition out there that gets even close to us. And you could read about it on the GigaOM website, look for unstructured data management. The fact is that this came out before the announcement that the BlueXP classification is at no cost. So I believe that next year, with all of the enhancements that we’re including in the solution, plus being already in a very good position as leader and outperformer, our position will get even better in the market.

But this really gives the official stamp from an external research company, how much value BlueXP classification brings to our customers.

Justin Parisi: Yeah, it’s pretty important to be considered a leader by an independent analyst. All day we can talk about how great we are, but ultimately we’re saying it.

But if someone else is saying it, well, that’s different.

Ben Kesten: Yeah, and they’re saying it out loud and all this other storage vendors just don’t have these abilities baked in as a core capability. And this is really what we want to emphasize. And what we want to bring out there is that we are the top solution out there to our customers at no cost.

That’s because NetApp really cares about their customers. And that’s why everybody loves NetApp.

Justin Parisi: Alright, Ben. Sounds like a great opportunity to use BlueXP classification. It’s now available for free, essentially. So if I wanted to find more information about BlueXP classification, where would I do that?

Ben Kesten: Oh, sure, so it’s just in the netapp.com, or just search Google for BlueXP classification in NetApp, you’ll get to our landing page, and you’ll actually be able to activate BlueXP through there. Read all about it and start using it. So we really urge our customers and invite our customers to start using BlueXP Classification as soon as you’d like to use it.

Justin Parisi: Alright, excellent. Well, thanks again for joining us and talking to us all about BlueXP Classification. Alright, that music tells me it’s time to go! If you’d like to get in touch with us, send us an email to podcast at netapp.com or send us a tweet @NetApp. As always, if you’d like to subscribe, find us on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, iHeartRadio, SoundCloud, Stitcher, or via techontappodcast.com. If you liked the show today, leave us a review. On behalf of the entire Tech ONTAP podcast team, I’d like to thank Ben Kesten for joining us today. As always, thanks for listening.

Podcast Intro/Outro: [Outro]