The Natural Healing Frequencies of Infrared and Red Light With Robby Besner of Therasage

Child: Welcome to my Mommy’s podcast.

Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And this episode is all about the natural healing frequencies of red and infrared light and PEMF and how to use all of them to your advantage to create a safe home environment, including things like ways to reduce EMF exposure, but also to harmonize EMF exposure and certain energies and frequencies that help the body get into parasympathetic and how to stack things like PEMF and infrared and red light frequencies to help the body stay in a natural healing state and how we can do this in our homes so that our children can benefit and everyone living with us can benefit. I definitely learned some new things in this episode, even though these are topics that I researched heavily. And I’m back with Rob Besner, who is the chief science officer of a company called Therasage. And they make healing products that are recognized as the leader in integrated infrared technology. And his story is fascinating because it began when his daughter was suffering from some pretty serious health issues. And all of his research and innovation around this topic came from his desire to help his daughter get better. And when he saw the results and her amazing transformation, he really felt compelled to share this with other families. And that’s why he formed Therasage and why he is so passionate about educating about this as well. So lots of key takeaways in this episode. Let’s join Robby Besner. Robby, welcome back. Thank you so much for being here again.

Robby: Wow. Pleasure. And always, whenever you invite me, I’ll be there.

Katie: I’m so grateful. And we had an amazing first conversation that went deep on the natural healing frequencies of nature. And I’ll make sure that’s linked in the show notes. And today I would love to go even deeper on this topic and in a very applied way, especially for the moms listening and how we can apply these modalities within our own homes to benefit ourselves and our children and our partners and everyone that we’re with on a daily basis. And I know that like we talked about in the first episode, this is a very near and dear issue to your heart and to your own family. It was absolutely pivotal in your daughter’s healing and in your family life in so many ways. As we dive into this topic, can you briefly touch on just some of the healing frequencies that we’re going to talk about today, like infrared and red light, and maybe their similarities and differences, and then we’ll get to go deep on the process of stacking them and integrating them into our homes.

Robby: Great. Okay. Well, infrared. And we’ve taken a very unusual approach to relative competitors in this space. And we actually develop devices that harness what’s called full-spectrum infrared. And the infrared frequencies from sunlight, this is in nature, they’re broken into three different wavelengths, the near, the mid, and the far. And each of them do different things. The near being skin-related activities like scar issues, collagen production, getting rid of cellulite. It produces collagen. So again, it’ll get rid of smile lines and great anti-aging stuff.

Eczema or psoriasis or acne, these are the near frequencies that work really great for that. And will penetrate close to three centimeters into the body. They also support the, as near and red-light therapy is very, very close to one another, those, the nanometers or the frequencies are close to one another, they’ll help with the natural production of nitric oxide as well, which helps with blood oxygenation and blood flow, as well as support the cell powerhouse, which is called the mitochondria. So that’s what the near does.

The far penetrate close to three inches into the body. And they support major detoxing, again, the dilation of the big blood vessels so that it’ll improve metabolic function, bring more oxygen, more DNA, more nutrition that’s in your blood around for circulation. It also pulls out many of the toxins that are stored in our fat cells, in our organ tissues, in our muscle tissues.

So living in a toxic world that we are in, it’s super important that we do things almost every day with our food sources and in devices like infrared sauna that will help self-regulate our detox pathways and keep our vessels and our cells strong and healthy and sort of away from what the toxic environment will do to slow everything down. And so that’s a key, particularly in today’s world. And so we can do it through food. We can do it through movement, just being active. And we could also do it through devices like infrared saunas or healing pads, some of the things that we’ve created. So I think that that’s important for people to know. And that we’ve taken a holistic approach, which is actually capturing full-spectrum infrared frequencies, similar to the way that nature delivers it to the planet, as opposed to some of the other companies out there that are sort of reductionizing, meaning that they just look near or just look far. What we’re doing is really taking a page out of nature’s playbook. So we’re trying to follow that lead.

Katie: Yeah, and I love that you guys are really revolutionizing that full-spectrum access to this. And all the things you just mentioned, just to highlight their importance, we know that things like nitric oxide and mitochondrial function decline naturally as we age. So these are both things that I’m paying a lot of attention to as I get older. And also, even for my kids who are obviously not really aging yet, they’re still growing up, but who are athletes or who are putting a lot of demand on their body, I feel like these frequencies are very supportive in helping them recover well and again, just supporting the things the body does naturally, because I personally believe that’s where the best healing happens, is when we work in alignment with what the body’s already trying to do naturally. And you also mentioned metabolic function. And we know that really sadly, statistically, over four in five people in the U.S. are having markers, at least one, of metabolic dysfunction. And the good news about this is we actually have a tremendous amount within our own power and ability to affect change when it comes to changing those statistics. But like you said, we also have a lot of factors in the modern world that are kind of working against us in that process.

And our first world, our first episode was awesome, because you really talked about these healing frequencies of nature. And I would love in this one to go deep on the topic of bringing those into our home and sort of what an optimal healing environment would look like. I know in the first one, you explained really well how we also, of course, want to interact with the sun. We want to get those frequencies from nature too. But how you just explained all these things in our modern environment kind of are working against us. And so these are things that can help us sort of, switch the, like pull the levers and switch the tides back into our favor. I’m going to make sure we go deep on PEMF and red-light and ozone and sauna and all the things you just mentioned. But to start broad, can you talk about some of the ways, like you said, we can start bringing these natural healing frequencies into our home as just part of our daily life?

Robby: Okay. Well, I guess it starts with being aware that it’s important for us to have these frequencies around us in order for us to be healthy and vibrant. And if we had our druthers and we could be out in the sunlight at the right time of day, then we could get it naturally. But being focused on our busy lifestyles, it just seems more appropriate that if we can get a device that’s affordable and we bring it into our home, then we can actually self-regulate when we bring these natural healing frequencies and stuff into our lives, into our bodies. And so we can sort of mimic nature, but then adjust as it fits our lifestyles. So, for instance, the point that you just made is so important to me because of what we call epigenetics. So we all have our own genetics, but then we have our choices, the foods that we make and our lifestyle choices, staying up at night, working with our blue light devices like the iOS devices and handheld devices and so forth. They all have beautiful conveniences to them, but they also have drawbacks. And so we’re drawn to the technology.

And so we have focused on creating what we call it a healthy home. And that’s where we spend a lot of time. And many of the housewives and people in the community that are listening today, you know, we take too much for granted that the agencies like the EPA and the CFTC and the FDA and all these governmental agencies are there to protect us. But oftentimes they’re influenced by the financial benefits, not necessarily what’s healthy for us. And so it’s important for us to take more charge of this information and create a healthy home that we can live ad you know, get better night sleep from. And sleep is a big thing. So we can talk about great nutrition but if you don’t have a good night’s sleep and generally between the hours of 12 and 4 in the morning, Katie, is when your brain naturally if you’re in a deep sleep that your body goes through a whole repair. And it repairs all the damage that the environment and our choices may have had from the day before. And so if we don’t get into that deep sleep, were already starting off at a deficit waking up the next day. That’s if basically you’re feeling vital but what if you’re fighting off a cold or if you have a chronic challenge like fibromyalgia, or chronic fatigue or Lyme disease, something like that. Now you’re really behind the eight ball. So creating that healthy home where maybe you’re free of electromagnetic fields, where you can bring in devices kind of like the devices that we make that, you know, have red-light therapy and infrared light therapy in it. And sound therapy is really good also for all these different wavelengths really resonate really well with the body and help us harmonize our bodies as if we were living in the rainforest or living on the land like we did way back when.

So I think that it’s an important topic. Actually, there’s a dear friend of mine, Darin Olien, who wrote a book called Fatal Conveniences that just was released in the middle of last year. And he goes through it in his book a lot of the things that we take for granted, like, for instance, Katie, household chemicals. Some of the stuff that we use and think naturally are pretty good for us. For instance, laundry detergent, it’s got a fragrance and a color to it. That stuff binds with your threads. Yes, your clothes feel and smell fresh, but what happens when you put your clothes on that have those chemicals and those chemicals that make the clothes smell well or even color the solution itself, now those are leaching into your body, creating another toxic event. We can pay a lot of attention to these little things and these little differences and changing those can make all the difference in the way we feel and how healthy we are.

Katie: Such a good point. And I know as a mom, of course, sleep quality is so important. And I also know I don’t sleep super well unless my kids are also sleeping well. And I have found with my kids, things like PEMF and the sound therapy you mentioned are both really supportive of kids seeming to sleep a lot better. I’m really glad you also brought up EMFs because I would guess most listeners are at least moderately aware of the dangers of EMFs and are trying to reduce exposure in our homes. But I would love any strategies you recommend for this specifically because what I try to think of is we’re of course going to interact with these things in the modern world in some way, but we have a lot more control of at least our home environment. And so whether that’s little things like putting a timer on your router and your modem so that they go down at night, or just not having devices in your bedroom in general, like putting a charging drawer in my kitchen where all devices live at night was a great tip that has been really helpful for our family. But I would love kind of your top-of-mind strategies for, first of all, reducing the amount of EMFs we’re exposed to in our home environment. And then I know there’s a lot of strategies that can help support the healing side of those as well.

Robby: Okay, perfect. Well, if it were just like one cell phone, we probably wouldn’t even be having a discussion about it today. But over the weekend, I’m not big, I don’t watch a lot of sports TV, but I just happened to put on a football game. And I looked at all the people in the stands that were watching that football game, and there must have been 20,000 to 30,000 of them. Probably all of them have cell phones. Probably all their cell phones were on. Can you imagine how much microwave energy is being pulled into that arena and how that’s affecting us and affecting our brains?

And, you know, particularly for the young families that are listening today, you know, between the ages of zero and about 18, many of the children’s neural pathways aren’t really fully formed. Okay, so that means sort of like connecting the dots, right? And so when you get these exogenous frequencies that really resonate or they oscillate at 80 times higher than the body’s own frequency, and how that affects your brain, to your point, it’s sort of really important that you don’t have these devices on when you’re sleeping at night. And that you’re conscious that these devices, when they’re active, when they’re turned on, when they’re not, you know, there’s a great way to charge it up and just put it in airplane mode, just like you do on the airplane. So that kind of cuts off the connection between your phone and the microwave tower that’s giving a signal. When I stepped outside my door, I only see about four microwave towers within my eye reach. But when I put in a certain, there’s a website, if you put in your zip code and I put in mind there’s 43 cell towers within four miles of where I live. Imagine all that energy coming to your smart meters, coming to your devices when they’re turned on.

So, again, the interaction, this is not a natural event. These are all man-made events. And our bodies really aren’t wired and built to be able to understand and digest all these different frequencies and all these different chemicals. And all the stuff that’s being brought into our homes, into our lives, into our water, into our air, and into our food. And so we have to work a little bit to raise consciousness to make ourselves aware of it. What we’ve done, mostly there’s shielding and blocking our ways, and there’s a technology that’s called Faraday. It’s an engineer that developed what’s called a Faraday cage. It’s basically a net that you can put around your bed, around a device that will block all signals. But that’s not necessarily practical if you need to have your phone on, that all the signals are blocked.

So we do shielding and blocking in all of our devices, but we also have developed a new technology that we’ve been working on for three years that’s called harmonizing. And this is actually creating energy fields that are really positive to your body, building up your own body energy field, allowing you to sort of ward off these exogenous man-made frequencies that actually hurt and suppress your immune system. And so, again, if it was just one device, we’d be okay. But we’ve got hotspots, we have electric cars, we have electric bikes, we have wireless networks. My coffee pot in my house is synced to my wireless network, so it knows the time so it can perk my coffee at 7 in the morning. I don’t have it turned on, by the way. But I just, this isn’t, I didn’t pay any more for that technology, but now you buy technology, it’s already embedded in it. And so we’re bringing a lot of these frequencies into our home through these devices and through our network connections. And so they’ve got silent stressors on us all the time. And I think that’s why we’re not feeling as strong as we could, and we’re not healing as fast as we could.

Now, to your point, your kids are strong, and they’ve got their age on their side. But as you get a little older, and you have a little less rubber on your tire, like me, it’s super important that you take care of all of these things we’re talking about today. And we actually create incremental health care where we’re practicing better food, surrounding ourselves with healthy devices, and looking for ways to keep dialing up the different synergies and the different hacks that we can bring in, and technology we can bring into our households that actually will help us in this way.

Katie: Yeah, I think the rise of smart devices is so wild to me. Like, why does our refrigerator need to be smart? Why can’t it just be cold? But I love that you talked about harmonizing because I think also there can be a lot of fear surrounding EMFs. And like we already talked about these are everywhere in the modern society. They don’t seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. It’s probably not reasonable, short of actually moving to an island and living entirely in nature, to completely avoid them. So we’re going to interact with them, but it’s about becoming more aware, more conscious, and mitigating the bigger risk areas. And then also, I love this concept of harmonizing because I think that’s one of the things we can do that helps reduce the fear around it. And we know fear is not good for health either. I know I now sleep with your pyramid I believe it’s called, next to my bed, and I miss it when I travel. But can you go a little deeper on the concept of harmonizing? Because I think this is such a fascinating topic.

Robby: Great. And when children are born, their fields, their energy fields can be measured to be almost 700 feet around them. That’s their energy. We’re all connected by these energy fields. This is what happens in nature. It’s kind of like why, if you think about it, why is it in nature? Like when you’re in the forest, how come a deer that isn’t quite as high on the scale of evolved animals, why is it a deer can sense you before you can sense the deer? We should be able to feel or sense them beforehand. It’s because of this energy field. They’re able to actually project out much, much, they’re much more sensitive to receiving because they’re trying to survive, right? They’re afraid that we may hunt them down just in the natural animal kingdom, you know?

So I started to do a deep dive of research and it brought me to the island of Bali because of the isolation of that island being so remote and it took so long for civilization to actually come in and modernize the island that many of the children of Bali, they have much greater ranges of motion and they’re much more, their biofields are a lot extended a lot further at a much older age than kids in a modern world. And so now, like us being adults, Katie, if we’re lucky, our biofield, our energy field will only extend as far as our hands, which is probably around three feet. So from 700 feet down to three feet as an adult, that’s what happens with the energy field as you start to get kids and people grow up and get more acclimated into the modern world, our energy fields start to collapse. Okay? So what we thought was, well, if shielding and blocking is what I consider to be reactive, meaning I can shield and block devices so that they protect us from 3G. But by the time I get that into your home, that technology, because technology is driven by faster gaming and where the money is is in a faster network rather than in the health aspect. By the time I get a 3G remediation into your home, they’ve already come out with 4G. By the time I dial it up to 4G, they’ve come out with 5G.

So it’s always reacting rather than proacting. So that bothered me as a bioscientist and a researcher. And so we started to work on this deeper kind of research that talks about harmonization. And there we’ve actually harnessed frequencies. We put them on little devices, stickers like holograms and a carbon fiber card that we can hold, that will hold these frequencies. And then you put that sticker on your phone. And now your phone is surrounded with frequencies. The phone is on your body. So your body is surrounded with these really healthy frequencies that happen in nature. And it supports your biofield. So now you’re kind of like Wonder Woman or Captain America. You’ve got this really brilliant shield of energy around you, protecting you from all of these 5G, 7G. By the way, if you think, Katie, that those towers are just holding 5G networks, the military is using 7G and 10G. So there’s a lot more intense frequencies that we can’t see, smell, taste, or hear that are going on around us that are affecting us and our health. And so this whole harmonizing piece, I think we’re a little bit ahead of our time on it in terms of our technology and the release of it. But you watch over the next few years, you’re going to see a lot more of that coming out because of how important that body of work is.

Katie: That’s so interesting. And I would love to also talk about PEMF. I would guess a lot of people listening have at least heard the word, but can you explain what it is and how it benefits the body?

Robby: Okay. All right. Well, PEMF means pulsed electromagnetic fields. Well, we just talked about electromagnetic fields and how harmful they are. So how could PEMF be helpful for the body? So that’s kind of an interesting topic because, again, electromagnetic fields, they resonate at a higher frequency than your body’s frequency. So there’s a lot of this kind of technology out there, PEMF. We make our own device, Generation 2 of the TheraPro has it in it.

What I’ve done is rather than pulsing a full spectrum of EMF, most of which are bad for you, bad wavelengths, I picked out all, cherry-picked all the good wavelengths within the EMF spectrum, electromagnetic field spectrum, and we’ve chosen eight of them. And so two of the ones we make, the first two will actually bring your body, your brain into what you said earlier, into parasympathetic. So sympathetic dominance is what we’re all feeling now when we’re kind of stressed out and very anxious. Parasympathetic is when we’re calm. And what we’ve seen in science and in most of the health protocols, when I can get your brain and your body calmed down, then any kind of intervention I do, whether it be nutrition or physical therapy, whatever intervention I do, your body will hold on to it a lot better. So my goal would be to move you into parasympathetic as best I can.

All of our devices, we use heart rate variability technology to actually prove that everything we do, that we make here at Therasage, will move you into parasympathetic because that’s one of our goals. So two of the PEMF will actually create that parasympathetic state. The next two actually kind of ramp up your brain. And so if you’re getting ready for a competition or you want to be zero-point focused on a paper that you’re going to do a presentation, there we actually are dialing it up. Then we have four curated wavelengths and hertz levels that actually are great for pain relief. And so and then we have a ninth function on our pad, which gives you a five-second sort of snapshot of all of the wavelengths, all the eight so that you can randomly get a cocktail of all these beautiful frequencies. And pulsing is a stimulation that will actually get these frequencies into the body on a cell level in a much more efficient manner.

Katie: It’s so interesting. And I noticed at home when the PEMF is on, well, for one, my kids usually monopolize it while they’re reading. They’ll have the PEMF on. But when it’s on, it’s like all the kids gravitate towards that sort of on the couch and the pets do too. And so, or if I sit down and try to use it, I’ve suddenly got at least four kids and two dogs in my lap and everybody’s kind of hanging out. But it’s amazing how you do start to really actually feel that difference. And as you were talking, I was thinking, oh, I could get one and have in my podcast room right now so while I’m podcasting, I can stay in that like focused clarity as well.

I know you have so many modalities. I want to make sure we at least touch on a few other ones because I feel like these are not well known, but very beneficial. You mentioned ozone briefly. This is another one that perhaps people have heard of, but maybe aren’t using or don’t even know how to use. Can you explain how ozone works and how we can benefit from it?

Robby: Sure. Ozone is a gas. It’s actually produced in our atmosphere. And so people may know of it from some kind of research or science that talks about the thinning of our ozone layer in our stratosphere. That certainly happens in nature. Ozone is nature’s natural disinfectant. Okay, so we don’t actually have ozone, which is defined as O3. So what we breathe is O2, that’s oxygen. O3 is a very unstable molecule that happens in nature. And because it’s unstable, it’s trying to stabilize. So it’s trying to drop off that extra O because in our atmosphere, that’s kind of how it works in physics. So when it’s in its unstable phase and you can inject it into water, we have a device that you bubble ozone into your kitchen sink and you can float your vegetables and it will kill all the bacterias, kill any parasites that might be on the foods and actually shed the food from some chemicals that are being used in normal agricultural industry. So it’s really great there. If you bubble ozone into your bath water now when you’re taking a warm bath, that ozone can come into the water. Then it comes basically through your skin into your bloodstream.

So now, as we mentioned in an earlier episode or earlier today, most of us age because of the lack of oxygen being held by our blood cells. So we can increase that oxygen. We can slow down the aging process as well as rebalance our internal terrain and may loop, get rid of some parasites, get rid of some non-beneficial bacterias and microorganisms that might be causing havoc in our internal environment. So ozone is a pretty cool thing. During the COVID episodes, when we were living with the pandemic, our ozone device and using ozone to just ozonate water and sprinkle on your and spritz it onto your counters will kill all the viruses and bacterias that are on the counter. We made two ozone devices. One goes in the infrared sauna, but it’s also a portable device. I use it on an airplane when I’m breathing the air. So it’s recirculating. If someone sneezes in the back of the bus or the back of the airplane, that air recirculates. So I can breathe this ozonated air that is free of bacteria and virus. I’ll bring that same little device and I’ll bring it into my hotel room. So even though that room might be cleaned and sanitized, now I know it’s going to be free of bacteria and viruses as well. And I did develop it to go inside the sauna because when you start to sweat, your skin opens up and now you’re letting out toxins, but you’re also breathing in now this ozone or extra oxygen into your bloodstream.

So ozone is amazing. When people read about it, they’re going to see a warning from the FDA that don’t use this, that it’s an irritant as it is to your skin and to your breathing pathways. But what they’re referencing is clinical-grade ozone that has a much higher concentration of pure oxygen. So they’re absolutely right. And any kind of ozone device that you use, if you bring it close to your nose and you start to cough, then you know that it’s too strong. So you might want to leave a window cracked open or a door cracked open so you get some fresh air in as well as using that ozone as a disinfectant. But it will help with mold in the house, it’ll help with viruses and bacteria. So it’s fantastic. So I really like the ozone.

Katie: And I’ll make sure I link to all the things we’re talking about in the show notes for any of you guys who are listening on the go. You mentioned earlier about stacking protocols together. And so I would love kind of to get a protocol from you for sort of maybe like a minimum effective dose if someone wants to make the best use of their time and all these modalities to live as optimally as possible. And then maybe what the overachiever, like this is what an absolutely perfect optimized protocol will look like that includes maybe time in nature. But also, what order would you stack these? Which devices would you use and how much?

Robby: Wow. Great question. And just to point out that we’ve already analyzed in the clinic that the sequencing, the order that you do things and the way that you dose what you do can make all the difference in a result. So many of the therapies out there and protocols, they really work. But what happens is that we all have our own individual interaction with that protocol. And so why is it, Katie, that I’ll go and have a hamburger and I’ll gain a pound and you’ll go and have a hamburger, and well, if you’re protein, you eat protein, some people plant-based. So I don’t want to offend anybody here, but you’ll eat the same hamburger and you’ll either stay the same weight or lose weight. We’re just two different individuals and our metabolisms respond differently. And so it’s important for people to know that sometimes if you just tweak the order that you’re doing things in the sequencing, it might make the difference in the way that your body responds or that the result you’re going for, you know?

So I started stacking different kinds of hacks or interventions close to six or seven years ago. And I thought to myself, well, here, we’re doing a pretty good job in getting infrared saunas and bringing people and bringing them into your home. We make them affordable, they’re portable, and they’re just a great device as you said earlier, one or two devices that I think everybody should have in today’s world is not necessarily our infrared sauna, but the idea of having an infrared sauna in their house and in their lifestyle is key because of all the great benefits. But I thought to myself, Katie, I have you in my portable sauna now for 30 minutes, and we prefer that you start your day with sauna.

So when we, by the way, and this is another concept. If I had to choose between an optimal result or a practical result, I would always choose practical because that’s the one that you’re most likely to adapt into your lifestyle. So you having a young family, everybody’s running in different directions. It may not be practical for you to do sauna first thing in the morning. What might be more appropriate is when the kids come home from school or later on in the evening when it’s a little bit quieter. So we have a health team that adjusts the use of our devices. It’s a free service. You can just come in, go on our website, and basically we have a dialogue with you and you tell us exactly what your lifestyle choices are. And then we say, okay, if you’re looking at this device, this is the best way to use it. So I think that’s key.

But if we had an optimal choice and it fit your practical choice, if you could do sauna first thing when you wake up, it mimics what happens in nature when our bodies wake up to the rise of the sun. So that sauna has an extract of sunlight and your body responds that way on a primal level. So it will start to turn on more than one-third of your body functions. That’s more than 2000 functions that get turned on by the use of an infrared sauna or use of sauna, use of getting sunlight early in the day to give you an example.

So now I have you in my sauna for 30 minutes. Let’s hopefully it’s the early part of the day. The first thing we do is we drink a nice, healthy glass of water. That’s going to improve the ability to sweat as well as it will start to dilute down the toxic load that we’re going to create once we mobilize these toxins in the body from the sauna. Then I thought, well, I’ve got you for 30 minutes, Katie. What other interventions can I bring into that environment that’s going to really dial up your experience? So the next thing we brought in was the ozone that I mentioned. This little device, it’s relatively inexpensive. And again, you bring it into the sauna. Once you start to sweat, you sweat out poisons. You breathe back in this extra oxygen. It goes right into your cells. It works perfectly.

I then brought in aromatherapy. So essential oils and aromatherapy is basically what most medicines are made from, either plants or from flowers. And so in the pharmaceutical industry, so they’ve extracted biochemically these various substances and they’ve made them to create a pill or a salve or oil or something like that. But in nature, these enzymes or these elements, these essential oils are all alive. And so if you can get an organic oil and you put into a diffuser, again, your skin, your nose, your mouth, you’ll breathe this right basically into your bloodstream. And rather than taking a medicine, you can now absorb this as you would if you were raging in the forest or walking through a field of lavender or chamomile. You’ll have all of those great smells and pollens and interaction with these various different flowers and plants to bring those elements into your body.

So the other thing that we’ve stacked is guided meditation. And so being in that sauna for 30 minutes gives you an opportunity sometimes to ask for forgiveness, to set your intentions, to do a lot of things that will improve your emotional state. And when I do that first thing in the morning as I do, it gives me really a jumpstart on the day because I’m able to stay focused on the things that are important to me and my family, my wife, my kids, my own personal health, nutrition, the air I breathe, the water that I’m drinking, you know, stuff like that just to maintain my own vitality.

Katie: That’s so fascinating. And like I said, I’ll make sure I link to everything we’ve talked about in the show notes because these are things I’ve been getting to try and enjoying stacking them myself. And I definitely had some key takeaways that I wrote down to try in different order and to do additionally in my home. But Robby, it’s always so, so fun to chat with you and to learn from you. And I hope that we get to have more rounds of conversation in the future. But for today, thank you so much for your time and for everything you’ve shared.

Robby: Pleasure. And again, thank you for having me. And I hope this is the beginning of many more of these kinds of conversations.

Katie: And thanks as always to you for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We’re both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama Podcast.

If you’re enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me? Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families could benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time, and thanks as always for listening.